Some Forum Musings

[Justin Wooding]

Hi chaps

Just thought i would share some of my thoughts and feelings on some comments Vlad made. Vlads remarks are all very interesting, and valid. Not bad comments in any way, but well worth musing over. And i am sure most of us have thought the same at some time or another. This is in no way intended to be critical of Vlads comments, but more, i hope, a little bit of encouragement.

I thought it would be good to put this in a new thread so as not to send off topic Vlads UC and 6pdr thread.

And you are %100 definitely not talking arse Vlad

I find that there is a distinct lack of traffic on the site and those that do use don't always interact, I'm just as guilty and would be the first to say so.

Over the years, i have visited (not always participated in) many forums. Now i am not going to be critical of any forums, some i like, some i don't. They are what they are and i figure if you don't like one, just go don't go there. Some are traffic heavy and some are quite slow.

When i tell people about Plasticarmour, i honestly tell them that it not a big site and can be slow, but the feel of it, the atmosphere and the genuine people we have here really makes it quality. I know PA is only a small membership, and the core regulars are even smaller, but i really do prefer quality over quantity. Not that i am saying i would not like to see PA expand.

I too am guilty as charged of not always interacting. But sometimes people do like to just look. Check out the views against actual comments in most threads. I think a lot of people just like to look and learn. Don't ever think that because not too many commented on that cool little technique you posted that no one has learned from it. It would be nice to see more comments though (i shall endeavour to do my bit) even if it is just 'That looks really great!' I vaguely remember this topic coming up on Modelarmour once too.

I feel forums should be not only a place to show your work and get your ego stroked but also a place to learn through discussion, I like to receive suggestions on how I can improve (completing projects more timely is one way ) painting and finishing for example is an arcane art for me and something I struggle with, which is why most of my projects stall at this hurdle.

I think the main driving force behind a modeling forum should be, as you say Vlad, 'a place to learn through discussion'. Probably a close second, or even equally, 'a place to show your work'. But, i am not a big fan (and this is my personal opinion) of those that come just to get their 'ego stroked'. I have seen on forums where comments are all about praise, but as soon as someone makes a critique, you can cut the air with a knife! I like to think here on PA critique and suggestions are taken quite well. After all, we are about discussion.

Don't worry, painting and finishing are my biggest hurdles too!!

We on this forum have shared our builds and sometimes our lives away from the hobby for quite some years now and friendships have been born, so how about we get away from the platitudes a little, as we all know we are the puppies undercarriage and challenge each other a little more, apart from Gary who seem to be super human

There are a few on this forum that have been associated with each other for a long time. I first met most of you when i joined Modelarmour over 7 years ago in Feburary 2009. Some of you were bumming around together before the Modelarmour days . And since then, as Vlad said, we have shared a lot of modeling and non modeling related issues and friendships have been formed. This really is the most decent modeling forum i have ever been associated with.

Now as to platitudes, well, i had to google the meaning of that I can't say i find this forum boring, Raouls posts always make for entertaining reading Although i think you mean Vlad, that we just get in a routine of the same sort of comments? Are you suggesting, when you say challenge, that we make a bit more consrtuctive criticism and give improvement suggestions?

Would love to hear suggestions on ways we can challenge each other. It could be fun! I am not sure how we could ever give Gary a challenge though!?

So anyway, i toast all of you who make up this great place, and here is to many years of modeling ahead

And don't stop posting Vlad, you are too much our friend and very much appreciated around here

[Steve Hutchinson]

Morning Woody,

Well said, and I solidly second your sensible and valid repost to the recent malaise at PA

I recognise all your comments about other sites, trolling at slightly less congratulatory comments and also the warmth with which
we do share, and the final fatal flaw, the finishing of anything at all

Mia Culpa

I am determined, no matter how grim, to finish the 70's build

If for no other reason than take a step further long the road to improvement.

This does bring up a possible stumbling block to your commentary, and that is the offer of constructive critique

I have, since joining the work of work in the mid 70's, experienced many changes, so good, mostly poor, but all changes none the less
and I believe we could all change here, but it will be a difficult birth, and for many of us, it will go against the grain, and culture of our beliefs and upbringing,
more so for the "very British" amongst us
If you are lucky enough to have seen the recent TV feasting of a "Very British Problem" you will relate and know exactly what I mean

But Nil desperandum, we will but try

I have seen, read and cataloged much research and information on many modelling subjects and techniques, as I devote 1/3rd of my hobby to this, along with 1/3 to the sourcing and collecting of plastic, and finally a 1/3 to the actual construction of said kits.

This is my hobby in the round, and does reduce my actual time at the bench with brush and glue accordingly, and as such my expertise is not at a point, where I would shout out, "Do it this way" to anyone, even if I were not shackled by my Britishness

I will try harder, even if it is by PM, with a have you thought about, or have you seen or one of many subtle and self deprecating ways of trying to say, "it could be better!"

A public show of any type of self serving superiority is not going to happen amongst the Brits, any time soon

I have, probably, been more open, in public, than ever before an any forum, but I do feel comfortable discussing these things with the "core" members of PA, and by default, the visitors too, hopefully more will join, we are a very open and constructive forum, traits which I do feel, are our inheritance from Vinnie, and something we will always cherish and continue.

So, I will finish the Pz II, I will not pout if no one comments on my niche builds and will offer both positive support, and where necessary ideas to try something different, and will accept the same in return, from what ever quarter it may come.

This I pledge, to my comrades, colleagues and dare I say it, my forum friends at PA

Well done Woody for being open and honest about our wonderful hobby

Steve H

[Raoul Kunz]

I'll go ahead and "add my mustard" as the Germans say and join the "forum-philosophers" on this topic .

I probably come from a slightly different position than you two, if only because I'm not "shackled by Britishness" but cursed with the German tendency to carry overthinking things to the extreme .
(and yes, Empire counts for "Britishness" since you seems to share some patterns of behaviour )

Before I encountered Modelarmour in..err.. I think 08 or early 09..sometime after my (almost, I know...)death ( ) I didn't frequent any model forums, chiefly because the ones I had encountered had a unnerving smugness about them, a conviction of being in possession of the perfect approach, perfect ageing methods and perfect overall finishing techniques.
As my skill level hovered somewhere around "single action AB and brushed Revell colours" territory I was, well not afraid, but certainly inhibited to enter one of these lairs of supreme smugness and embarrass myself with my pathetic builds.

Then there was the contrasting German online scene (I'm making general assessments here, I myself am proof that there are others ) which was perfectly happy to stay on a somewhat embarrassing level, producing even huge dioramas with model-train trees and railway grass... and congratulating each other uncritically because critiques where evidently unwelcome, a phenomenon Woody also observed in other places.

So what's the point of this semi-biographical ramble?
The point is that MA was a friendly, helpful and above all critically inclined community. And I learned swiftly and with the help of examples, looking at build blogs of others has been one of the most enjoyable learning experiences I've ever had and I suppose has lead to blogging myself.
In my opinion blogging ones builds was the very core and heart of MA and it is what drives most of us here on PA, which is something of a successor of the defunct MA.
I really like to read blogs and observe various techniques in action, and I blog myself both to offer insight into my preferences and techniques in the hopes that it may help someone else and to gain a critical reception of my progress - as evidenced as recent as my 231 blog, there are things which I'm too close, too involved to recognize without someone else offering a critique.

However sometimes I simply feel that I can't offer any constructive critique of a build and then my German straightforwardness kicks me in the shins.
Because I would think it disrespectful to throw some small talk-ish encouraging, if insubstantial, phrases the bloggers way I just keep my mouth shut (or rather my fingers passive instead of hitting keys ) so as not to offend the blogger with my shallow prattling.
As you (hopefully) may have noticed I changed this to actually giving encouragement and those remarks I have hitherto considered superficial because in my stuck up Germanic stuffiness ( ) I failed to consider the psychological benefit of actually giving at least a signal that I read and appreciate the build, or comment, new technique or whatnot instead of lurking in the background like a creepy voyeuristic plastic-fetishist .


So yeah - I hope to offer more feedback because this community is worth it!!


Best regards

Raoul G. Kunz

[Matt Parvis]

The question of feedback and the kind offered is an interesting one to me.

One of the things that I purposely did when I joined and started to participate on the old MA was to try and comment only when I had something to offer, a link, a picture, information, etc. The idea was that the best way to be accepted as a member of the community was to contribute to that community. Looking back on it, after having gotten to know people, it was probably an unnecessary approach. However, I do think it was a valid way to approach commenting on a forum with the level of traffic that MA had at that time.

Fast forward to today with PA and I feel like a simple “Looks great!” is as important in some ways as a 20 minutes google search to provide multiple links to different options in response to a member’s question. I understand Vlad’s point about not wanting comments to just be positive ones, but, for now, the simple positive comments can be very important for this community. Without them, if someone, especially a newer member, posts something and doesn’t get any response, they are likely to feel unwelcome or unimportant. That’s not good. For the rest of us, those sorts of comments are important because they illustrate that we aren’t all just shouting into the dark with our posts.

Matt

[Raoul Kunz]

Fast forward to today with PA and I feel like a simple “Looks great!” is as important in some ways as a 20 minutes google search to provide multiple links to different options in response to a member’s question.

This touches on something I forgot to mention: the reason why even the simple encouragements are really worthwhile here is the fact that, and I know it might sound arrogant , we (as in: the community) operate generally on a high to very high level of proficiency by now which really gives weight to these comments.


Best regards

Raoul G. Kunz